DISCLAIMER: There’s a lot of buzz in the industry right now about workshop reviews. Yes, that is absolutely the reason I am posting this. My husband, family, and friends are who truly matter to me in this world. Unfortunately, you may agree or disagree with what I write, but it is absolutely my opinion and personal review of the workshop. All in all, by posting this I feel free. We should all have the right to say what we think and critique what we spend our hard-earned money on. That is the point of consumer review product sites, and it should be the same within the photography community. I understand that this is delayed, and I should have posted my thoughts immediately following the workshop, but I was afraid of backlash by someone (and maybe friends?) who may not be so happy with my thoughts. It should not be like that, and I encourage all of you to be honest with yourselves as well, and share your experiences with others. So, thank you, to all of you recently, who have spoken up and made me feel free.
Day 1: The “Little Black Dress and your cutest heels party”
Honestly, I thought this idea was really cute. I don’t have a lot of occurrences in my life that require me to dress up in skirts and heels, so I was pretty excited about the party. I even held a little contest on my blog for my readers to vote for which shoes I should wear. Knowing that the party would be the first part of the workshop made me more relaxed and excited at the same time. At least I knew I wouldn’t be starting Day 2 knowing none of the other girls. It was a bit of a relief.
The party started with Scarlett running late, and honestly, that usually doesn’t sit too well in my book. I like promptness. Actually, I expect it if I’m coming down for your workshop. I took it as being slightly disorganized, and frankly this shouldn’t happen unless there were completely unforeseen circumstances. The reason for the late start was not explained to me personally, so I guess you can take it or leave it.
As a side note, I think you’ll find throughout this entire post that there is a recurring theme: The best thing about this workshop is that I made amazing friends.
Back to the party. It started off very cute, with some little fondue appetizers and oh-so-delicious cupcakes. There was a “photo booth” setup for us to have fun with, and it was a great time! We also spent some time going around the room and introducing everyone, so it was good to get an idea for who all of the ladies were and where they came from. After some mingling, we were all set to sit down and play a game called “Girl’s Night Out” (or something of the sort). Again, a great way to get to know all of the ladies a little better and break the ice. Probably would have been better without iPhone checking and boyfriends in the room, but oh well, it was still fun. The party ended around 9pm and me at the Retro Ladies (the other girls who were staying at the same hotel) all headed out to get something late night to eat.
Day 2 Classroom:
“A Little Surprise and Teaching from Scarlett”: Honestly, I can’t remember what the surprise was anymore. Maybe the chance to win some camera straps? No idea. This part of the workshop I’m calling the “motivation” section, and may be the part of the entire weekend where I gained the most amount of information.
We started off with a somewhat awkward vocal confirmation of “You were born for this. It’s time to show the world who Leeann Marie Photography is!” Ok. I get it. It fit within the context of this part of the workshop. We were then reminded to “Compete, don’t envy” and that “The future has nothing to do with the past or present”. Again, great quotes. I dig it.
We then got into filling some of the time with inspirational movie clips, some of which were a couple of minutes. I have sat in other non-photography-related workshops, and sometimes movies are a great illustrator or motivator. (Looking back, though, I can’t help but question if they were used to fill time. I’m honestly not sure.)
After some discussion on motivation and why we were here, each girl was able to stand up and share their personal story as to why they love photography. Mine? I love to help women to feel beautiful. This is what I got out of the workshop. Knowing this is a great motivator for moving forward and truly loving my shoots. It was interesting to hear all of the girl’s stories, and it brought us all a little closer.
We covered the topic of “How to Stand Out”, which included being personal, helping others, teaching, reading Gary Vaynerchuk’s book (which I have since then and blogged about), and networking. I do believe that each of these is a great tool to learn more about yourself and others.
We also talked about how to book your top package, and moving from shooting for free to being featured in magazines. Ok. Let’s be honest, though. These were 5 bullet points. That is all I have in my notes. So if you’re coming to this workshop on detailed take-aways on exactly the steps and strategies to do this, you may not get it. I have a feeling I understand the process, but there was no “this is what you submit, in this format, to the X Y Z people.” It was more basic broader steps on how you may be able to get to the point where you want to be.
We also talked about the good and bad sides of putting yourself and your business out there. She had some good points in “The more you stand out, the more critics will come your way”. Agreed, and “If your clients are happy, it does not matter what other people think”. Again, agreed.
Scarlett spent some time talking about how she went from a starting photographer to a photographer who charges $4500+ for her weddings. Her story was nice, although didn’t quite seem realistic to most other wedding photographers. She was lucky to have worked a wedding at a venue that referred her for a large, high-visibility wedding. She was then featured in a southern wedding magazine and raised her prices from there. While I can say that I always do my best to network with other vendors and venues, I do wish this part of the conversation had some more tangible take-aways that we could implement in our business. We talked about blogging and how it helps. Obviously, I agree with this 110%.
Q&A time was mediocre with a lot of “ums”. I did ask some questions and she was able to respond, but I think I would have liked to learn more about marketing and getting yourself known more in your community. One of the recurring questions was how to get more blog readers, and (maybe I’ll get them from this post!! TOTALLY. KIDDING.) the answer was to keep blogging and they will come. I also think it has a lot to do with personality and luck.
Then we had a dance break. Lydia and I danced. Because dancing rocks.
Day 2 Lunch: Scarlett did attend lunch. We learned how Esther teases her hair. Girl tricks and magic.
Day 2 Shoot: We met to shoot a recently-engaged couple, and they were really sweet. We headed out onto the streets and were instructed that each of us would get 5 minutes personally with the couple to be the “main shooter”, and the rest of us would shoot from behind. We started with the “skipping trick” to get couples to loosen up. Ok. Then we started taking turns shooting ahead and leading. Honestly, this took f-o-r-e-v-e-r. And I haven’t blogged or used any of the images from this session because they were mediocre at best. When I did step up to shoot, I wasn’t crazy about the location I selected, but worked with it anyway. That’s nobody’s fault but my own. Most of the other images were with the couple looking in different directions and never at my camera. I don’t know. I just wasn’t nuts about the images. And then I got REALLY cold. And I was in Florida!! We were out so long (over 3 hours) that my fingers literally turned blue. Then we got bored enough that we left early.
The instruction during this session was mediocre, and I don’t remember many “tips” or “tricks” for posing. Our lighting instruction was to put the subject’s backs to the sun. She busted out a video light in the sun, and I didn’t see a difference. Maybe I was missing something. Critique REALLY could have been beneficial, and I expected the instructor to have good criticism and ideas for every girl that stepped forward. Most of the time this was not the case, and critique was “I liked your location” or “Maybe you could have used a different bench.” Maybe there were tidbits in there that were truly enlightening, and if that is the case, it would be great if Scarlett would reiterate them again to me. Some girls were unknowingly shooting with improper signage (think, handicapped signs) in the backgrounds, and it wasn’t noted until I did say something. We made sure to get a picture of everyone’s Shootsacs so we could blog it to Jessica Claire. At one point, Stephen (Scarlett’s boyfriend) even stepped in to work with the couple and get his own shots. This was a bit out of line in my book. We also had to take a break to do some cutesy things (like all stand in line with our cameras) for the DVD that was being filmed while we were there. That will wait until the end. Oh, and we also got a beach picture of everyone at the workshop. This was a cute picture and I do like it. I did enjoy this session at the beginning, but I wasn’t fond of the lack of critique, the length of the shoot, and the number of shooters for only 2 people. (I think this is a common thread with other workshops as well.)
Literally. My hands were blue. I’m not kidding you about that one.
Day 2 Dinner: Scarlett did not attend.
Day 2 Evening: I spent the evening working with the Retro girls on some of the images from the workshop. We talked logos, design, working with clients, our thoughts on the session from the day, Lightroom, and Photoshop. I think that each of us gained some useful information that night and it was great to build these friendships even more.
Day 3 Classroom:
Vote for the best images from the day before. We had to pass around a portable hard drive and get everyone’s images loaded into Bridge. At one point Scarlett yelled at Stephen in front of everyone. A-w-k-w-a-r-d. This took a decent amount of time, and finally we were able to see everyone’s images. This was definitely interesting to see all of the girl’s work and how we each interpret the same situation a little differently. I never think it’s bad to do something like this. I’ve done it frequently with second shooting. There was no solid photography-related critique in viewing these images. Sometimes post-production effects were admired, but technique and outcomes were barely touched-upon.
Workflow and Editing: Atrocious. Pretty much the worst workflow and editing overview I’ve ever listened to, and trust me, I google and youtube the crap out of that kind of topic. I stopped taking notes about 5 minutes in, and the entire presentation took about 30 minutes. Staring at the computer the entire time. Editing is completed in Bridge, and the “trick” is to oversaturate and then decrease the orange saturation to get a better skin tone. Working in Photoshop consisted of pressing some buttons, and an overuse of Totally Rad’s “Pro Retouch”. We were shown the power of Liquify. In order to blog images, you need to drag and drop your new image overtop of an old one so that you get that same text thing at the bottom. Honestly, it really was bad. If you want to know more about Photoshop, Lightroom, and workflow, I would suggest looking up an Adobe Certified Expert in your area and asking for a private consultation or smaller workshop.
Our introduction to the America’s Next Top Model winner, Whitney: She was ok and nice enough to come talk with us for a few minutes prior to going to hair and makeup. It’s great that she stands up for being a plus-sized woman.
Day 3 Lunch: Scarlett did not attend.
Day 3 Shoot: Started a little late. This shoot was to be a focus on off-camera lighting and how to use it when shooting a bride. Stephen worked on getting everything set up, and he was a little pushy. Honestly, I could have dealt with him not being present at all during the workshop. I’ll get to that later.
Pocketwizards. I love them. I also love off-camera lighting. I do not claim to be an expert. However, I will say that this entire shoot I felt like I spent a lot more time explaining how to use Pocketwizards and set exposures to properly work with off-camera lighting in different settings. I was more than willing to give my set of Pocketwizards to other girls to shoot with. Afterall, there were only 2-4 supplied by the instructor. And there were 20 girls + her and Stephen. There was very little time spent on the instruction of what the off-camera lighting set up was, how to set your shutter speed and aperture, and how to use the Pocketwizards. I experienced a LOT of frusturation during this shoot, and tried my best to explain how controlling shutter speed affects your available light, and how your aperture affects your off-camera light intake. This was not explained at all. Many girls, when I spoke with them, had some ‘A ha!’ moments with this.
I will by NO means claim that I am an expert with this. And I will by no means claim that I was the only one teaching and the savior of the workshop. I am just stating that I spent my time trying my best to help the other girls. Scarlett spent most of her time shooting for her portfolio with an expensive model that the workshop attendees paid for. Stephen spent time shooting for himself as well, and I believe at one point one of the girls was holding the lighting stand to keep it from blowing over. Additionally, the Pocketwizards “weren’t working” when we took the lighting set up outside, and I believe that Scarlett needed to ask for assistance from other photographers (not workshop attendees) that were present.
This shoot was extraordinarily disappointing, and I realized that little care was taken to teach a thing about off-camera lighting.
Day 3 Dinner: Scarlett did not attend my dinner. Don’t know about others?
Day 3 After Dinner Image Contest: This took forever and the Superbowl was on. We were all willing to meet back at the resort after dinner, but we couldn’t meet in our classroom. We were kicked out since it wasn’t reserved for a long enough period of time. Again, poor planning. We sat in the hall and spent at least 2 hours waiting for everyone’s images to be submitted via the portable hard drive. While we were there, we were taken aside to give video testimonials, and by this point I was frusturated. My testimonial, again, was that I made really great friends. Scarlett spent most of her time at this point editing her images from the shoot. I have no idea why this time wasn’t used to further chat with each of the girls, get to know their business or photography-related issues, and assist with providing answers. Disappointing.
After the image contest, we headed back to the Retro and all of us girls had a blast that night. We took photos of each other and made fun videos. It was really hard to leave them the next morning, but I was so incredibly happy with the friendships I made. They will be friends for life.
Lessons Learned and General Workshop Thoughts:
I had fun, yes. I made some great friends. Do I think I should have had to pay $1500 for great friends? No. And I do not believe that this workshop is “worth it” to others in the future based on the fact that I made great friends. I believe it takes a lucky group of people in the right place at the right time to form friendships like I did, and I do not believe that any workshop can guarantee you that. I believe that workshops should be registered-for based on content.
Planning was poor. Tardiness and delays were consistent.
I felt as though my workshop money was used for the wrong purpose. I was not happy that the workshop was advertised as “for girls only”, and yet we got to spend the entire weekend with Scarlett’s boyfriend, Stephen. He was an unwelcome presence and was rather distracting to both Scarlett and the other girls in attendance. I also felt like (in some small way), my workshop fees paid for his plane ticket (as a business expense) to come visit. The workshop fees were also used to pay the model we worked with on the second day. This is fine, but since Scarlett was shooting for her portfolio during this shoot, it also seemed as though our hard-earned money went towards building her portfolio. This is incongruent with my thoughts on how a workshop leader should act.
I learned very little in regards to photography. Again, posing techniques were not covered. Critiques were general at best. Off-camera lighting was not covered. Editing and workflow techniques, based on other smaller workshops I have attended, were not best practices in the industry.
I felt like the point of the weekend was to make money. For Scarlett. $1500 x 20 = $30,000. Sure, there were fees necessary to carry-out a workshop, but being that we were kicked out of the classroom early, it seems like some areas were skimped. “Prizes” were donations from other photographers and photography companies. Sure, I like some of them, and one of the girls won a Shootsac, but still. Much of the time and focus of the weekend was on creating a DVD, which I’m sure will be for sale in the near future. Please don’t buy it. Sorry, Scarlett, but the content just was not there.
I do think that her workshops could have a future if there is some serious re-work and thought put in. Discrete points and focus topics should be maintained, and Scarlett should focus on the things that she is good at – Marketing. Shoots should be either broken up into smaller groups, or there should be less workshop attendees.
And, finally, I don’t want to sound like a grump. I have attended other workshops, and they have been amazing. I’m just a harsh critic, because I catch on quickly. I want to know more and more, and feel as though workshop leaders should be experts. I do not think that I got my money’s worth, and I think future attendees should consider what they really want to get from this workshop. It may be best for very early beginners or a marketing focus.
I’ll end with this, a quote from the first day: “If your clients are happy, it does not matter what other people think.”
I was a client at this workshop. I matter.
**NOT RECOMMENDED**
GREAT review! Thank you for being confident enough to post this! It makes the community as a whole stronger!
~Melissa
Sweetie, save your money! All you can learn at a workshop you can teach yourself.. or someone will be willing to give it to you free.
First of all Leeann, I have looked over your work and I think you ROCK!
Kudos to you for having the ‘guts’ to say what was you HONEST opinion in a NON bashing way.
MORE people need to do this, I ALMOST went this weekend but I had my doubts on what WOULD I learn? so I was going to wait and read the reviews of the 1st. Thankfully people like you give it HONEST.
I hope more will step up and the other 19 will do the same thing.
If they have a GREAT reviews/bad/mediocre we have the RIGHT as consumers to KNOW what our money is going to “teach” us.
I hope everyone will do this and NOT for just SL’s workshops but ANY workshop they take, simple fact there are LOTS of workshops out there but NO reviews.
The ONLY reviews are friends of the photogs no unbiased reviews, why? Is it fear of being blackballed? Fear of hurting feeligns? That is just crazy, for 1500 up to some being 4K REVIEWS should be OUT there for us to read! It is something I hope changes and soon.
great to read something real about workshops these days. Sadly, I think this is happening a lot. Really too bad you had to waste money on something that did not prove to be worth it! Thanks for sharing your insight Leeann!
This was a fantastically well thought out review. Sorry you were so dissappointed, but this review will certainly be useful to others. I’ve been considering going to a workshop but definitely to a more established photographer – on my shortlist are Denis Reggie and Cliff Mautner. In the meantime, I think I’m going to score a couple of well reviewed books from Amherst, listen to my excellent mentor, and do a few photowalks with other photographer friends where we’ll shoot, talk and compare images. Cheaper, might take longer to learn stuff, will be more fun.
I think WPPI is a much better use of funds, you make great friends, kick it in Vegas and catch a few good classes.
I’m just hesitant to blow $1,500 + flight + hotel on a workshop that turns out to be amateur hour at best.
I’ve been reading a whole lotta’ real personal bashing on Scarlett & Stephen over at True Photo Talk. I am SO INCREDIBLY PLEASED with the way you handled yourself with this review. Although I do not have anything against Scarlett personally, and cannot really base any feelings I have towards her on real encounters, I do hope that she will take your review and others seriously before charging for any future workshops. I love your candor, wit, and you seem real easy to relate to and again I appreciate you putting this out there for the “newbies” out there to read and make educated decisions before paying for a workshop.
BRAVO!!! I did a so called workshop with her in Vegas. I was unimpressed to say the least. All of the above only jammed into a 2 hour session. I left early as I felt I could be doing more with my time. I am hoping any newbies will see this and learn from your experience!
Great wording, and advice!
…oh…and your WORK is amazing! Without the workshop!
Thank you, Rachel. That’s very kind of you. I hope you find another workshop that better suits you! (and yes, you need all the time you can get in a place like Vegas!
)
I think you did a very good job with sharing what happened at the workshop and how you felt about it without being mean or vindictive. I applaud you for that. Use those relationships you built to continue to spur you on and to help your business grow. I think people need to see these reviews. It helps them to make an educated decision.
Hi Leann,
I don’t know you or SL or about any of this — I came here from True Photo Talk to read your review. Very well thought out review and I have a question: have you asked for your money back?
Plus, I’m sure it would have been difficult to do but next time you find yourself in a position like this you should walk out — I’ve done it and received a full refund. I mean if I took a golf lesson from someone and then went out on the course and had a better score I might think something’s wrong with that scenario …
On another note Muyiwa mentioned Cliff Mautner’s workshop … tell her I said she should go to it and if she’s not satisfied — I will refund her money! Cliff is the real deal …
Brave girl you are and I applaud you for posting the review … even if it was reactionary.
Hi Robert!
I agree with your comments on Cliff and his knowledge. I saw him speak at a local conference here a few years ago and he shared some great information.
I have no asked for a refund, but I guess it’s not a bad idea.
- Leeann
Leann,
Make sure to also contact Scarlett directly with your review if you haven’t already. I met her and think she’s a sweet person, but I haven’t had any desire to go to her workshops and so I haven’t dealt with her in a professional “consumer” to “business” manner.
Kristi,
I provided the information posted here in my feedback survey after the workshop.
Thank you so much for the honesty. Kudos for getting it all out! I do feel the same way with these workshops nowadays — that there are some photographers (I know not all) that are just merely taking advantages of others for money.
Leeann,
I agree with Robert. $1500 is a LOT of money to be out of for something that you really didn’t get anything out of. Obviously you spent more than that on hotel, airfare, etc, but I think it’s only fair that if you were this dissatisfied that she give you your money back.
Woops! Sorry that last one auto filled my name and I didn’t notice! That email address isn’t even right!
And also to clarify on the costs. I got an “early” special of $1200, but I am not sure about the other attendees. It was still a lot of money.
– L
Wow.. That’s just awful. I can’t even begin to think how annoyed *I’d* be if I spent that type of money and got essentially nothing to show for it.
Horrible.
Well, this is no surprise. How many weddings did she shoot anyways? She made a name forself because she wears designer clothes and posts “look at me me me me” stuff everywhere.
When you actually try to make a living out of photography, it is a completely different ball game. If your goal is to be famous, if you are attractive, you can do it much easier. You don’t need to be a good photographer or even need to shoot many weddings.
It’s so refreshing for someone to tell the truth in a professional manner. I am curious what attracted you to the workshop to spend that kind of $ ~ I’m not sure how the workshop was advertised in terms of what you would learn. I hope this helps others to be sure and triple check on substance of the workshop.
Leeann, I know I commented on your Facebook post, but wanted to comment here as well. I am so proud of you for having the courage to post your honest feelings about the workshop. I think the majority of attendees feel the same way you do (myself included) but are afraid to voice their opinions for fear of being blacklisted by the photography “community” (those on the truephototalk blog should get that reference.) Like I said before,I think Scarlett is a sweet, sweet person and I totally agree with her point that art is subjective and I think all of the insults and bashing have gotten to the point where it’s just downright cruel. However, she doesn’t have as much creative freedom with her workshops. There was basically no content, no teaching. It was indeed, inspirational, but no way would I EVER knowingly pay $1500 for a pep talk! I also firmly believe that a photographer who’s hosting a workshop should not be shooting for THEIR portfolio. She was supposed to be transferring some knowledge to us (the point of a workshop) and instead I think most of us felt like we were there to take up space in her workshop DVD (hopefully she will think long & hard before charging and arm & a leg for this) and make her look good. Like sharing personal and intimate stories about what inspires us via a microphone that ONLY works for the video?? Bottom line is, I feel disapointed, like I wasted my money. I am thrilled that I made some new friends but, like you said, we shouldn’t need to pay for that
and I actually learned quite a lot from the Bui Brothers (for free!) So, good for you for posting an honest, rational review that doesn’t trash Scarlett or her work but gets your point across and hopefully will help others make a more well informed decision. PS – I still haven’t gotten my headshots back from Stephen 
Hi Stacy,
Honestly – I think the “girly girl” marketing of it was what attracted me to the workshop. I had been following Scarlett’s blog for a while and felt like she had “made it”. I wanted that too. I did not do my research and am paying for it now. I do not feel as though the workshop had a clearly defined lesson plan. I went to primarily learn posing techniques and how she gets a “fabulous bride”. Not sure if that’s what you’re looking for or not, but I guess my answer on that one is really vague. I did go expecting some form of education.
I think it’s awesome that you have posted such an in depth review Leeann. As I told you from the beginning, I appreciate your honest review so I can continue to learn how to improve as a teacher. I even just blogged about your review too!
Sarah- I also linked to your blog on my blog where you had nothing but positive things to share, so I’m sorry to hear you actually feel disappointed too. Please email me if you have further concerns, I’m here for you. And about the pictures Stephen took of you, you and I have already emailed back and forth about the link. Did you not download it yet? Email me so I can help and make sure you get those!
Thanks for finally commenting, Scarlett. It’s convenient that you just blogged about my review as well, but that’s fine.
Please also note that Sarah did pay an extra $300 to have headshots by you, and instead they were passed along to Stephen and not yet delivered.
This is not surprising. I’m sure this experience is not unique to you or to this workshop. There are SO many workshops out there, and some being put on by people who are BARELY professionals who have been doing this a while. It’s sickening really. I went to a couple master classes at WPPI that were a complete waste of time.
So glad you could do this, Leeann! I know that I’m in agreement w/ many when I say that there always, always needs to be a review of a workshop. I am not going to be negative but…one thing that really caught me was not being there for various meals w/ you guys. Scarlett is a sweetheart, so hopefully this helps her w/ all of her future workshops.
I, myself have not the confidence to even come close to a workshop! Although, I’ve been asked before. I think if I ever do one, my first will be totally FREE! Then, we’ll see.
THANK YOU for the HONEST review. I enjoy following Scarlett’s blog and have been thinking about attending but was hesitant on the price.
I hope Scarlett does the right thing, and you get a full refund after this.
I would really like to hear about Jasmine Star’s workshops as well…if anyone has attended. And which ones are truly WORTH it.
one more thing, Heather Bookout Photography offers FREE 2 day workshops. GREAT for for beginners & those who need some ideas!
Leeann, what a thorough, objective and well-thought-out review. I can see that you have bent over backwards to be fair here. I applaud you for speaking up. I just wish you hadn’t had to.
Leeann – Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I was going to attend the workshop as well … but I started to have a very bad feeling about it once I learned that her boyfriend would be attending. (I don’t mean that in a bad way, but I guess I just had a suspicion that she would be spending most of her time with him, ya know?) And frankly, I suspected that my money would be used to fly him there and I wasn’t really comfortable with that.
I am very disappointed with Scarlett’s response to this – her blog post is about how we need to celebrate each other’s art – but you aren’t talking at all about her work as a photographer! You are talking about a product (the workshop) that you paid very hard-earned money for (I’m sure) and it was a disappointment.
Anyways … all that to say, I think you are fantastic and I really think you are headed for great things. My brother lives in Pittsburgh (I’m currently in ATL) and next time we visit, I’d love to take you to coffee or dinner and chat, if you would ever consider it. I love your work!
xo
monica B.
that sounds great, monica. pittsburgh is a great city. i wish more people would come and visit. i would have capitalization and exclaimation points right now if my droid were being a little more friendly
I have had great experiences and learned a lot at the workshops I’ve attended, so I cannot imagine how disappointing it would be to not get my money’s worth, and to leave empty-handed. Sorry you had this experience. Congrats for posting something that is your honest opinion and very detailed without being catty or immature!
Muyiwa–spend the $$ on Cliff’s workshop. You won’t be disappointed! His “bootcamp” truly changed the way I shoot.
Hi Leeann! I posted on the facebook link, but wanted to post here as well. Thank you for voicing these thoughts. I have to say that I agree with everything you had to say. I just noticed that Scarlett linked to my blog as well with a review. Yes, I reviewed it, but I’m sure you will notice it is very sparse, with not much to it other than I had a great time and met some wonderful ladies. I struggled with what to say, because I couldn’t think of things that I had actually learned, other than blog. I think Scarlett is a wonderful lady and is very sweet. I am hoping that this was just first workshop jitters. I was very disappointed about not getting more information from her. I was hoping for a lot more on the marketing, branding, legal and business side of it, along with more about how to pose and direct your clients, how to talk with them during a shoot to make them comfortable. The workshop felt more like a pep talk. I was disappointed to be left hanging during the first shoot with the couple. I had never worked with a couple before, just children, and struggled a lot with that. When I glanced back to ask for some help, she said to figure it out. I know we need to figure out a lot on our own and not rely on others to do it for us, but if we have NO clue and that is what we are there to learn, shouldn’t there be some help? I am very grateful for the wonderful ladies that I met and for the boost in confidence I got. Beyond that, there wasn’t much that I took home. Thank you for articulating and summing up your thoughts on the workshop so well.
A wise man once said “NOT speaking up could actually be considered a rather selfish thing to do.” I really don’t feel like I am a selfish person, quite opposite actually SO here goes…..
I, am not good at putting my thoughts into words. You can tell what I’m thinking by my facial expressions, but ask me to say it to you and you’ll probably have no idea what I’m talking about.
I, like Leeann, Lydia, Virginia and Sarah also attended Scarlett Lillian’s workshop. I had many, many preconceived notions about what to expect from attending it and was super and I mean SUPER excited about attending. I had done what research I could do. I had even called some of the women that had done the “Spend a Day” with her to ask them their honest opinions. I can just imagine how wonky they thought I was….but I had to justify to my family why I wanted to spend close to $2000 on my very first workshop from someone not even in my own country. Scarlett, this is not a dig at you. I do not like to hurt people’s feelings. EVER. I speak what’s on my mind ALOT of the time. This time, I was a coward. I admit it. I was totally mad at myself that I spent all that money and didn’t come home with what I expected to. I was embarrassed to tell my family and friends that I really didn’t come home with the feelings I was hoping to. This was not so much Scarlett’s fault as my own. Maybe had I not had preconceived notions about what to expect, I would have come out feeling extremely satisfied. I however did not. I came home with more than a few very close friends that I will have for life. I truly believe this. BUT, I didn’t pay $2000 to buy new friends. I paid it to learn. Scarlett has linked my blog about the workshop on her blog. On my blog, I say and I quote (myself, haha) “I gained so much valuable information from Scarlett but also from all of the fabulous photographers that attended” I truly did learn valuable information. I truly enjoyed the pep talk, I felt inspired after it. For that I am grateful. I did not come back completely empty handed. Scarlett is not a terrible person, she did not commit a terrible crime in my mind. She was far too distracted for my liking. I paid for her attention and I didn’t get it. I should have spoken up that day and told her so. For not doing that, I am sorry.
So, here is the coward speaking up now. For what it’s worth. Take it or leave it.
Great review Leann. There are so many people that buy in to Scarlett’s persona. I’m not a hater. A lot of her work is actually quite good.
But, when I saw the price of that workshop, I said, damn, she’s got some audacity asking that price. She’s good for Jacksonville, but a Dennis Reggie, she is not. She’s never even done a workshop before.
She sells personality more than imagery. And, it’s no surprise the a bunch of people buy in to that image, and thus had no problems paying to attend her class.
I might also add that Stephen Knuth is only a small step up from a Craigslist photographer. The fact that he’s getting play now purely because of the girl he’s sharing a promise ring with is an insult to all great photographers out there.
Next time anyone wants to pay $1500 to attend a workshop with a first time presenter, put the money towards some glass and pick up a stack of magazines to see how the real professionals do it.
Erin,
I admire you so much for speaking up, and I hope that you feel like your thoughts and actions are truly aligned. Trust me, nothing bad will come from voicing your honest opinion.
And I love you
- Lee
C,
Hopefully there will be a good medium for you to learn more about other workshops (like Jasmine’s) as well! I’d love to hear/read more reviews on workshops, classes, and products that I’ve considered!
Leeann-
Thanks for being honest & open! I attended my first workshop this January as I’ve always been afraid of it being a waste of time & money but went in with high expectations and a willingness to be open & learn.
I left with much the same experience (right down to the shooting with the couple and helping other photographers!) and I wasn’t at the Scarlett Lillian workshop so I find that very interesting how similar our experiences are.
Overall, I left feeling like I could absolutely have taught the workshop better, with more depth and actually helped people learn & grow. Maybe I attended the wrong workshop (there were several people who are just hobbyists though I was under the impression this was for working pros considering it covered branding, publications etc) but I think that instead, this is type of workshop just running rampant in our industry.
I could have walked circles around the workshop leader in Lightroom and during the shooting. I helped fellow attendees master their camera settings when honestly, our leader should have been there by their side.
I think that these workshop leaders are certainly well meaning and wonderful people but don’t seem to understand that we come to LEARN and walk away with more than just an atta boy or simple inspiration.
Here’s to a new wave of fresh workshops that not only inspire and build relationships but build better photographers!!
I wind up stuck in the middle of these things sometimes, probably b/c I’m on facebook a lot but I got a lot of ?’s about this workshop and those by a couple of others.
Scarlett is doing well handling an awkward situation, which includes, 1) don’t sling mud back, 2) don’t ignore the situation and address the above-board valid complaints and 3) stay positive and be responsive.
To the ones that Scarlett linked about from her blog that were positives, I am getting a better perspective why somebody would post a public positive while suffering private anguish. And what I’m getting is 1) not wanting to appear or admit to having made not the best decision and 2) only chiming up when somebody else clears the way.
I am flabbergasted at the vitriolic wildfire against Scarlett, Stephen and Dane recently. There is a lot of pent up frustration about these workshops and it is extremely important to have people absolutely thrilled with your offerings, or your brand will be a huge handicap rather than an asset. And when your brand is your own name, this is very very very very hard to recover from.
There was a photographer from Boulder CO about eight years ago who kind of did what Scarlett is doing now. She wasn’t really shooting much and decided to give teaching a go. She had about one year of giving tours and the pitch of discontent was so loud that nobody knows who she is today.
Before any of you decide to do a workshop, work work work on the content. Provide ten times the value. Have hard-hitting, concrete content that people can use. Respect tremendously the sacrifice that people make to come hear you speak. This is a great lesson for many people out there, unfortunately these tragic mishaps happen faster with the power of the internet.
Gary Fong
Hey leeann! I don’t know who “C” is..but I have attended Jasmine’s workshop and would be more than happy to share with her my thoughts! If she doesn’t read this… maybe you could share my info with her so she can contact me. And I adore you for speaking your mind… We are not called to be timid…
I have been following Scarlett’s blog for the past few years. While her photography is not to my taste she is fairly consistent in her style. Over saturated colours and blown highlights and interesting colour casting. You almost need Oakleys to view them. Props for being consistent. You can tell her images from a mile away. If her clients like who are we to critisize.
To me it screams at you fairly loudly
It says look at me, please look at me.
Barbie doll like
Style over substance
Typical Gen Y
There is way too much personal stuff on your business blog
Look at my love life, look at the lack of my love life
Look at how much a daddy’s girl I am
Look at me the material girl
Look at me the die hard romantic
But it is all ok because JC is on my side
Style over substance
All talk but no action
You are not a reality TV star
Scarlett you should consider
Listening and hearing more than you talk and speak
Move on from motherhood statements, motivational talk and one liners which sound good but mean little in your life
From what I can see your one on one teaching is much better than group ones
You can bluff some people some of the time but not all people all of the time.
Stop being greedy.
Less about you
Substance over style
Art over marketing
Actions more than talk
Grow up
You act like a single child princess tweenie
Kristen, You are rude, why are you still following someone for year if you feel this way about her? Somethings a little odd to me there.
Leann,
Wow!
I am so glad to learn that I am not the only one who was stunned at the loss of my money and the complete emptyness of Scarlett’s workshops. The workshop I attended was a “Spend the Day with Scarlett”, so it was a one-on-one 8 hour day that I *just knew* was going to change my life in photography!
The first hour of my 8 hour day was shaved off, per Scarlett, as she had taken some photos of my kids and I the day before, which she did for all the Spend A Day-ers. Total time to take 10 pics of me and my kids = 20 minutes. Total time she deducted from my 8 hour day = 1 hour, or $150. When I arrived at her house, we chatted for about an hour (another $150), then went upstairs to her office. I was so excited because I *just knew* that I was about to see the editing tricks of the hottest photograher Jacksonville had seen. I was shocked when she sat down at her computer and pulled up a photoshoot she had just finished and showed me the finished, edited images, and how great they were. She basically told me I should buy TRA so I could get ProRetouch, and to just “boost the saturation”. That was it for the editing 101. Literally.
I was also under the assumption that we were going to edit, together, the photos she took of my kids and I the day before. That would be the perfect way for me to see those mad skills, right? Nope. Apparantly, those specific editing tricks are for Scarlett only, even if you just gave her $1200 of your hard earned cash. Another $150 for an hour of “editing” that basically served as an ego booster for her.
Next we went to have lunch at a cheap sushi restaurant, where she “graciously” paid for my meal. Of course, I couldn’t help but think I was the one who was really picking up the tab. My cost for cheap sushi? You guessed it. Another $150.
Then on to the “shoot”…. the highlight of the day, right? First, Scarlett didn’t know where the location was, so we made a few u-turns. We met our engaged couple at an ice skating rink in the cold rain. While we were waiting for the rink to clear out so that we could begin our shoot, we were informed that no one had ever cleared with the management that we could shoot there in the 30 minutes that the rink is closed to the public for the ice to be re-surfaced. We were then without a venue for our photoshoot. ($150)
Ever the optimist, I offered to make some phone calls to some friends who own restaurants to find us a new location for the shoot. We ended up going to my ex-husband’s restaurant for the shoot, which was not exactly comfortable for me. I was shocked that Scarlett positioned the couple how she wanted them and shot away, finishing with one pose and moving to the next without even offering me the opportunity to step in and take my own shots. I was basically trying to get shots around her! She even had me hold her spotlight for her, but by the time it was my turn to have her hold the spotlight for me, the spotlight went dead, and she didn’t bring any extra batteries! There was never a time, not even once, when she gave me any kind of instruction of photography, camera settings, posing, or lighting. Not even once. ($300)
As we drove back to her apartment, I asked Scarlett if she would be interested in letting me second shoot a wedding with her. She replied, very arrogantly,”maybe someday, if you improve”. It was like a slap in the face. I have never claimed to be a celebrity photographer, but I work hard and take direction well. I worked with another local wedding photograher for about a year and second-shot numerous weddings with her. I might add that was back in the film days, and I had to make every frame count, instead of shooting recklessly and PS3-ing the crap out of the images. I have also managed to grow my own photography business and have many satisfied clients. I even had 9 20×20 portraits comissioned by a large local hospital.
When we arrived back at her apartment, I thought surely, *now* we go up and edit these photos, since we hadn’t edited anything together yet. Nope. I was wrong yet again. She basically said thanks for coming, and see ya later. I was in shock as I got into my car. I kept thinking, “I could have bought a new lens….”. I almost wrote to her to ask for my money back, but couldn’t muster the courage. Jacksonville is very small, and the last thing I wanted to do was to burn a bridge with a prominent photographer.
My Spend A Day with Scarlett was a year and a half ago, and I still have not brought myself to edit the images I took that day. I had read Scarlett’s blog and admired her work for 9 months before my workshop with her, and was tremendously excited for the experience. I felt that I knew her from reading her blog, and loved that she a Christian, and proud of it. It was inspiring for me to read about her close relationship with God, as that is something that I work every day on. However, my experience with Scarlett was nothing like I thought it would be. I felt that she had herself up on a pedestal, and that she basically expected me to follow her around and pick up what I could. I can honestly say that I wasted $1200 of my hard earned money that day, and a new lens would have been a much better investment. I have gone over and over my experience, and tried hard to pull something, anything, out of it so that I could validate the expense. I have not been able to come up with anything. Live and learn, I guess.
Thanks Leeann for your honesty and courage in posting this review. Hopefully from situation like this people have the courage to speak their true feelings rather then suffer in silence and frustration for fear of backlash.
Ugh. Jenny. That whole experience makes me nauseous. I really think that Scarlett should address you personally… and refund your money 100%. That just really makes me sad… Scarlett does not realize she is ruining her “face”… personally… and the face of her business. But it doesnt matter right? Who cares? As long as your clients… are happy… Yne of her positive feedback had any substance… YOU were a client that day…and you weren’t happy.. so she should care.
I am SO GLAD to see something like this. As a new photographer (3 yrs running) I have also fallen prey to people like this as it seems the industry is rife with this kind of activity right now. This is a step in the right direction and thank you for being brave enough to post it.
Leeann, I am so sorry that you had to go through this. Did you ask for any type of refund/recourse? I would feel cheated as a workshop attendee spending that type of money if the leader and her bf were shooting and taking time from the attendees. That to me is the one cardinal sin you should never commit if you are “teaching” other photographers at a workshop you are hosting.
I never followed Scarlett or Stephen, but read their comments on True Photo Talk which led me here. I think the most disturbing thing I saw on her website was the very first image that loaded in her slide show had a huge disclaimer ” Recently Photographed ANTM Cycle 10 Winner Whitney Thompson” Most people would assume she was “hired” to shoot Whitney, not that she HIRED Whitney as a model for a workshop you helped pay for.
Mark,
Thanks for commenting! If I named everything that frustrated me about actions taken, I may be here for days. Instead, I choose to focus on my time with my clients, because time will tell who is honest and who is not.
And at this point, I have not asked for a refund. If it were offered to me, I would surely accept, but it seems as though she may need it more than I do.
- Leeann
WOW! that is really shocking.
i have been stalking her site for 2 years.
that makes me really sad.
i really bought into everything she was selling
i got caught up in all the glitz and glam
glad to hear the truth!!!!!
THANKS for the truth
i forgot to say that i really like your photography.
its awesome.
you didn’t need a workshop!!!
Thanks Ashley! Hopefully there will be other reviews for workshops that can help you pick the BEST one for you in the future if you do want to go to one!
- Leeann
I will keep up with your blog now! I am sure you will post information if you come across a good one!
This was my first year in the biz… its been really hard but really fulfilling!! I am learning something new every day. If you are bored you can check out my website– http://www.ashleynackephotography.com it needs some updating!
Thanks again!
Ashley
Jenny,
I am SICK for you!
I could barely read the whole post, it was disturbing what happened to you!
Monica
Hey kids, good news!
If you have attended a workshop and left feeling ripped off, you can file a complaint with the FTC. This will be anonymous to your peers. If enough people complain, they will investigate.
Also, as a member of the wedding photography community, if you suspect someone is operating a fraudulent business opportunity experience, you can submit their name to the FTC without having attended their workshop.
This is CONSUMER PROTECTION! Please watch the following video. The complaint link is at the below the video.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/microsites/bizopps/index.html
Arrived here via @juliabailey et al.
Kristen: I request a video of that performed as poetry or rapped.
I googled two lines. Original, then?
Lois: Your logic is impeccable. Was that an attempt at discounting what Kristen said?
So were dudes expected to wear dresses too?
Leeann and Jenny,
I actually had a ton of thoughts typed out but decided it would be best not to post how I feel about this right now due to the fact that I do not want to turn your blog into the True Talk blog. I posted there a few days ago that I didn’t like the personal attacks on people and such. Leeann you gave a very informative, professional critque. To me that takes guts!!!
Then I read Jenny’s review and I could not beleive what I was reading. I mean I could tell Leeann didn’t have the experiance she had hoped for but I had heard that the Vegas “workshop” wasn’t good so I suspected others felf that way as well and I get that not everyone is going to always be happy.
But Jenny you spent 8 hrs $1200 to do something I wanted for so long to do. I can not beleive you were treated this way sounds like to me you had to pay a large amount of money to be nothing more than a 2nd shooter for the day. I would like to think not everyone has had the experience as you at those workshops BUT with that kind of money no one should walk away feeling the way you did.
It’s truely heartbreaking to find out someone you truly admired is not what you thought.
I just wanted to add that if Scarlett is reading these comments and I hope she is, You are an extreamly smart business woman or you obviously wouldn’t be where you are today. So I hope you take what people are saying to heart.
Leeann, gald I found your blog!!!!!! Great work!!
jasmine Star- if her workshop is anything like her Wppi talk then its not worth the money either!! Her talk was all fluff with a couple of “Holla” and “truffs” thrown in there. Had to wait 3 hours in line to get in then listen to her say the same things she always saids. -buy showit-blog about yourself- keep it real (ironic cuz she doesn’t)
Never giving any real info. Just talking about- buy a showit website..buy a showit website. So her husband JD can keep a job. Cuz he works for show it.
Karma comes back to bite someone.
Remember Lauren Harris and how you treated her on your blog
Now you know how she feels.
Leann,
Good for you for posting the truthful experience that you had at the workshop! Honest reviews are crucial, and I hope that Scarlett has the decency to refund at least part of your fee, but sadly I doubt it
Thanks, Melissa! And thank you also for not wanting to turn my personal site into that one post on TPT. While I do think it’s important for us all to have an opinion, I’d appreciate it if you consider your potential audience before posting. Do continue to feel free to offer real experiences or intelligent feedback, whether positive or negative.
I believe Ronny is speaking of a post not on my site, but on another blog.
Leann, I have to give you mad props for reviewing your disappointing workshop with honesty and integrity. There are two workshops that I’ve attended that I left feeling disgruntled from and I was too cowardly to ever honestly review them. I don’t know why – I am guessing mostly because I hate hurting people’s feelings and you never know what kind of backlash you are going to get. So bravo and kudos to you for having the guts to write a review that isn’t all sunshine and bubbles.
I agree with everyone else about Cliff Mautner. I took his Plus Class at WPPI and I hope to take one of the workshops of his in the future. While he’s not as fluffy as Scarlett, he knows his stuff when it comes to photography and IMHO there’s no one better out there right now doing workshops.
Just because someone is nice (or appears to be online) doesn’t mean that they’re a good photographer or a good teacher.
After reading these reviews, I think people would be better served by putting their hard earned money into attending a proper art school or even take a community college course.
I also think it is naive of the attendees to think that a one-time workshop will change their photography forever. Photography is not a hard craft to learn, but to think it can be learned in one weekend is silly. Everyone has to work for it, there is no magic bullet.
In the age of digital photography, there are a lot of newcomers who have jumped into the market because it is so much easier now to get a quick result, to turn a job around fast, to keep the expenses down without using any film. But just as owning a Mac does not make anyone a graphic designer, owning a digital camera does not make you a photographer. It makes you a person who shoots with a digital camera.
At the college level, there are a lot of wonderful courses available. For instance, attending a class at Art Center College of Design in Pasadena, CA, at night costs about $750.00 for an 8 week class, one class a week. And guess what? You still won’t know everything at the end of the course. But you will be taught by the best in the biz. And the critiques will be hard.
But that’s what everyone needs to learn this stuff, not a “girls night out”. Do that on your own time.
I also don’t understand you worrying about a “backlash”. You are not trying to sell to Scarlett Lillian. You are trying to sell to couples looking for wedding photography. And if anyone cannot take a critique of their work or their workshop, they should not be doing this.
Good luck to you in the future, your work is good. Keep at it. We all need a pat on the back sometimes, but you shouldn’t have to pay for it.
so disappointing
Ya’ll are surprised? REALLY? SL shoots like 10 weddings a year (if that) and has no photography training at all…She is the antithesis of what it is to be an actual wedding photographer, and she is a parasite on this industry. This was bound to happen, and I am just surprised it took this long for the other foot to fall…
I’m not SL, but I’ve gone in less than 2 years from shooting nearly 40 weddings a year to now under 20 and probably around 10 next year. I’m still a full-time wedding photographer…and have no formal training – SHOCKED! I know, you all just feel off of your chairs.
This parasite is going back to her hole. Oh wait, God has provided an awesome life for me that I get to share with incredible people! So never mind…YEAH for weddings, photography, and love!
- Lori
Lori,
Hi
you have GREAT work and congrats on your business, I don’t think you are SEEING the point it has NOTHING to do about HOW many weddings 10 or 10 thousand, it’s HOW people were TREATED did you read the reviews from the one’s that attended? if you are OK with that, wonderful! Ignore the post where they are being personally bashed on true photo and read the REAL stories.
My money was basically flushed down the drain and i’m NOT ok with that, but these girls and the one on one lady above, Jenny, have you really read what happened to them?
BTW, I’m also A PROUD Christian and I too love people, Weddings, love, AND photography so please don’t get all judgemental. If you haven’t been scammed that is great, I hope you never do, it’s a TERRIBLE feeling from someone you looked up too.
“attending a proper art school or even take a community college course.”
More like spending the time to learn and practice and get better.
There are some super awesome self-taught photographers. There are a lot of folks that start too fast for their own good, I believe.
I do have more baseline respect for people who are photographers first (and a significant amount more for those who went to school for it), before they think about shooting weddings. It’s an uphill battle to learn all the non-photography skills involved in wedding photography if you don’t know how to even work your camera.
But that’s the basest technical aspect–can you take a properly exposed and focused photo?
I think the biggest thing is that SL’s time between starting and offering a high-dollar workshop is way too short for most of our perceptions of what should be. Maybe she could have grown into a great photographer had she not been pushed to make it happen so fast.
Very good and comprehensive review, I am glad you put it out there hopefully it will help others to make better decisions with workshops. I think all of this conversation is really good for the industry to get people talking and see the real junk that gets scraped from the top
As Inspector Gadget used to say….”WOWSERS!!”.
I heard about this “unhappy” workshop attendee feedback of SL via The BSchool’s Classroom. I was super curious and decided to hunt it down. Leeann – good for you about posting your honest feedback here. You are a brave soul.
After reading every line of your post, it is clear to me that Scarlett is just another wedding photographer that can’t make a living from shooting weddings so she has to milk it from the rest of us. Brutal (and scandalous). I am in awe that her workshop was all about 1. Building HER own personal portfolio with a “celebrity” model. 2. Shooting live footage for HER DVD. 3. Flying HER boyfriend half way across the country so she can spend time with him. Ouch. Oh, and $1500? Cripes.
Hopefully SL reads all of these comments and thinks long and hard about what has occurred here. I hope to high heavens she retires from workshops until she can learn it’s not all about her.
Thanks for posting this. I read a post from a fellow photographer (cpp, craftsman pr.) on facebook a few weeks ago, “Doesn’t anyone sell photography anymore?” She had turned on her computer that morning, opened up her email and it was full of solicitations from other photographers, selling workshops, actions, dvd, seminars, business plans, marketing plans, etc. Many had not been in business long. Some over 20 years.
I personally am beginning to believe it is becoming about “hipe”! Who can look the most boutiquish and not who is best at the craft.
Since digital has come along, everyone is a photographer. Everyone is an expert. I am looking at several lovely portraits displayed for senior consult. One is an ‘econo’ 16×20 canvas stretcher 160 Medium format film. The others are Fine Art canvases made with digital. I still see a difference in the quality. The image on film is the better quality. All are beautiful!
I steer clear away from these $1500 workshops unless there are some oldtimers on the agenda and I see meat and potatoes on the lesson plan.
Sorry you did not get what you paid for.
Appreciate the honesty and boldness in your review. Our industry needs some level of accountability and when people are getting ripped off, or not getting what they paid for, it needs to be known. The problem right now is that a great photographer does not necessarily mean an equally great teacher or mentor. Teaching is a whole other skill set that needs to be learned and refined. If the host photographer isn’t a strong leader then a lot of what want to share or want to teach gets lost in translation.
Thanks again.
c.
Sorry if my previous post seemed disjointed. The canvases I had on display were for a senior consult we were doing.
I was surprised at a couple of sessions I went to at one event. Speakers had no credentials. Have not been in business very long, but are successful at the social networking aspect and getting a crowd all riled up with door prizes. Show a bunch of images of a baby eliminating his/herself and you have a talk people will pay for. These ladies have tagged on with a ‘bigger’ name and they are doing a 3 day workshop. I personally did not think they were ready for the level they were speaking on.
I can not even tell you that experience through college and just regular darkroom classes in my past have shaped me as a photographer. I recently just took a portrait photography class at my local community college just for the hell of it. I paid $100, yes $100 because it was a contiuing edu class for the public who were just taking classes for fun. I learned a ton and it was for 9 sessions!!! I have to be honest to just hanging around people who practice photography, wedding photography etc. will do wonders. IF will all shared our advice with each other we could all save a lot of $$. I learned early on not to invest in workshops I took 2 low priced ones David Jay, Boudoir Divas and B- divas not bad.. but the D. Jay I could have lived without
I think we need to be cautious about buying into these expensive workshops thinking they are going to give us the answers we are looking for because sadly in my experience it is not the case. I done a 2 hour phone mentorship which included some time sharing screens that cost $600 and I was expecting to learn photoshop techniques and a whole lot more and I still wake up in the mornings feeling sick I’d spent that much money and not learnt anything that would change the way I work. In fact I could look this photographer up on ILP and get everything I was told for free.
I’m reading a lot of comments saying that workshops aren’t worth the money but I have to totally disagree. I highly recommend going to workshops of photographers who are skilled in a certain area of photography. For example: One Light to learn from the master of off camera lighting. Cliff Mautner to learn from the master of natural light (among many other things). If you go to a seminar because you like someone’s personality or you feel like you connect with them you may be disappointed. If you go simply because you think their images are “pretty” you may be disappointed.
I’ve been shooting for 3 years and I’ve been to a few workshops. To this day I still use techniques from two workshops I attended. They were well worth the money. There are quite a few that are worth it!
Find a photographer who has a proven track record and is skilled in one main area or many. Go to learn a skill! Research the workshop you are interested in and go!
GREAT REVIEW!!!!! I am so glad to hear HONESTY!!!
Deanna… I tried emailing you personally, but you didn’t include a link to your site…
If you are looking for workflow and photoshop techniques take a look at my site/blog and see what you think… I have my wedding workflow down to about 4 hours… Hallelujah! haha! I would be MORE than happy to share my workflow with you… for free……and see if it will work for you… I feel awful that you still wake up and feel sick… without getting anything out of that $600…(I’ve been there!) In case anyone else clicks on my blog…there is currently a post for a workshop…haha please ignore it and dont hate 
I posted it to notify many local photographers who have been asking about learning workflow etc. 
Jenny–WOW! That was uncomfortable to read & very frustrating.
Wow! I read this review after being linked from Gary Fong.
I think that before I comment, it is important to know that I have never heard of this workshop, or of this photographer before. I am not a wedding photographer, so perhaps it is that I don’t travel in the same circles. I photograph newborns, babies and children. I mention this only because I want any reader to know that this is an unbiased comment because I don’t know the blogger, nor the workshop provider.
I read this review initially because I was curious. Gary had blogged about it, and it was kinda like rubbernecking in a car crash – I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I also read the review because I have been offering workshops for portrait photographers for the past two years, and I am always looking for ways to improve my students’ learning experience, and part of that is to read negative reviews and see what really irks attendees.
I agree 100% that model shoots are for the benefit of the attendees, not the hostess. The very first workshop I ever offered, I was given the feedback that they wished I had photographed too so that they could see how I work with kids. I hadn’t photographed for the reasons stated in this review, namely that I didn’t want the time taken up by me, and wanted the attendees to have a fair chance. I can talk about what I do in class time, but in retrospect felt that there is a tremendous value in showing people what you do as well.
So, in my second workshop, I switched gears and did some photographing as well. I was very aware not to overshoot, and spend more time than necessary with the models. Also, because we are working with kids, their patience wears thin, so we all have to move fast. I now work with the models and start the shooting while explaining key points. I demo what I had earlier mentioned, and showcase what could be ‘sticky points’ for others as they happen. From there, I let the attendees go, and provide them as much leeway as possible, commenting when appropriate for the benefit of all involved. I will adjust lights, monitor exposures, and side-teach as required. All in all, I think it is a nice balance. I’ve never added a workshop image to my portfolio…let’s face it, I am TEACHING, and not at my best while trying to be good at two things at once, so the images are rarely favourites for me. I think the model shoot should be for the guests who are paying for the experience.
I also think that as a hostess, a workshop provider needs to be present for all workshop-related events, whether a mixer the night before, lunches throughout, or any side-event. You are hosting, and your presence is mandatory. People came to learn from you, so you need to give them every opportunity to get to KNOW you. Not appearing at a workshop lunch or section is just wrong, IMO.
It sounds like Stephen’s presence was unwelcomed by women who thought it was a women’s event. If it was advertised as a women’s only workshop, and that played any role in drawing attendees in, they were just indeed jipped.
I think a lot of workshops today are empty in their promises and it saddens me a great deal. I like to think of our industry as sharing and open and giving. For me, I started teaching workshops when it started making more sense to just gather all of the people together who were asking for mentorship and give them an even bigger and better bang for their buck. These empty workshops make it harder for people who are offering real education to photographers to market their efforts. I field more questions now than ever that start with: “is this going to be another one of THOSE workshops, where…..”. I find I am now having to defend what I do because people just don’t trust anymore, and with good reason it seems. So sorry to see things headed this way.
I’ve been on the other side of the coin too. I’ve attended workshops as well which promised to make me into a supreme outdoor natural light photographer (I am 100% studio), and loads of other promises. For one I spent $1K for the weekend (2 days), and the other I spent $2100 for two days. I really should have learned after the first one that if it sounds to good to be true, it certainly is, and move on. Now I too am a skeptic.
Leeann, I would like to commend you for having the courage to post this. It takes a lot of guts to post about a negative experience. It seems photographers always have a posse of henchmen ready to attack you at the first sign of a negative experience. I think this just reinforces people’s desire to shut up and forget about it and move on. No one wants to ask for their money back because they are afraid, but I think your post allows people to see that others feel as they did, and lets the hostess know that she has some work to do, amends to make, and possibly some refunds to issue.
At the end of the day, we are all colleagues. Bad word of mouth travels fast, and I’ve seen many photographers lose their reputation after they started hosting workshops, selling workbooks and trying to weasel money out of “friends”. It is disheartening indeed, and saddens me a great deal.
Thanks for posting this, and doing your best to assist others who may have attended or have thought of attending other workshops. Research, call and talk to the hostess and get testimonials from ACTUAL participants. Anyone can be ANYTHING online, so check it out and don’t throw your money away – you’ve earned it and deserve to get the very best.
Hi Leeannmarie!
I have no idea who Scarlett is (I’m in Australia) but well done (or, well said
)
Am so glad to see someone calling this sort of stuff out! Scarlett’s not alone, many get away with claiming that they are bigger and better than they really are
Kris
Been there, done that.
Have seen this so many times and I’m a young-un in the industry.
It’s disappointing to see what’s happening and to see who is promoting themselves as the “BEST”.
^5 for your review and for telling it like it is!
I am very sorry that you had to go through something so horrible and preventable. I went to SL’s website expecting mind-blowing & spectacular photographers; I found no such photos. I read SL’s post in response to this one, and said the main reason for even having a workshop is because her inbox is constantly being flooded with FAQ messages. My advice to anyone like that is to take your time and respond to query, instead of charging an upsetting $1,200 for something one could probably answer in a few minutes. ‘LEE’s opinion above is the same as mine. I believe what SL did, even though she had the best intentions, her character ASIDE, the workshop was parasitic. She saw a market for making some money, and TOOK it. In my opinion, not knowing you Leeann, or have ever spoken to you before, your picture quality and hers are very different, yours is better.
What did you learn that you couldn’t have in another year of practicing and honing your craft?? Refund please!
[[[ ... ANTM Cycle 10 Winner Whitney Thompson” Most people would assume she was “hired” to shoot Whitney, not that she HIRED Whitney as a model for a workshop you helped pay for. ]]]
is this true? i missed that big time
Leeann, has there been any further contact from Scarlett? This caused quiet a swirl. I would think by now she’d actually offer you *SOMETHING* as a retribution.
I can’t imagine what she does when her brides say, “Umm.. That grass wasn’t neon on my wedding day” or “What happened to the blue sky that is now white”.
Hi Mike,
Unfortunately, I have not heard anything from Scarlett, except some references to me in her True Photo Talk.com posts.
- Leeann
Leeann, I just saw some buzz about this online and had to come and see what was going on. At Scarlett’s workshop it seemed like you were having such a great time. I really looked up to you as one of the really “fun” and super talented girls in the group who added so much to the dynamic of the weekend. I have to admit that I was so jealous of the creative video blogs that you created and posted with your new workshop buddies at the “Retro”. I am sorry to now find out that it was not a good experience for you. I really got a lot out of Scarlett’s Workshop. Maybe I am at a point in my photography journey where a confidence boost and some good direction from someone I feel is following her heart and dreams on a successful career path is what I needed. I have been comparing myself to other photographers for many years now and never felt like I was good enough to be a success. Scarlett Lillian gave me the courage to stop the comparison game and follow my own heart. To clearly see that this is the way God made me as a photographer, this is a different purpose He made me for, this is the vision He gave me to see the world uniquely through MY lens! I have changed the way I look at my photography and life and I am thankful for this incredible lesson I learned from Scarlett. I feel that the 20 incredible women who came together in February in Jacksonville have been a blessing to my life that is priceless. It just makes me smile to think of the friendships that I made with several of the girls that I know I will have for life!! It was great this year at my first WPPI to hang out with so many fantastic ladies from the workshop and The Bui Brothers, all who felt like old friends! Thanks for sharing your honest opinion on the workshop. I just wanted you to know that I am glad we are friends because of the experience. You are one extremely talented photographer!!
Mandi,
Thanks for commenting, and I hope you had fun with your contest! I definitely voted for you
I totally do understand where you’re coming from, as by no means did I voice my opinion as the opinion of the entire group. Sometimes, we all do need a pep talk, and if that was worth your money to YOU, then that’s great! It’s all about a matter of personal perspective and sharing what the experience in your footsteps was like, so that others can decide in the future if the offerings from the workshop are the right fit for THEM.
Keep your chin up always – you’ve got a great personality to share! And like I stated in my review, the friendships I made were fantastic. That won’t change.
- Leeann
Hi Leeann,
I applaud you for having the balls to write the honest review.
We who are with San Francisco Pro Photographers group have been following this thread and have been reminded (we book speakers for meetings and workshops) about what is important to people who are looking for photography workshops.
More importantly, you reminded us about being diligent in researching who we book and not falling for what is possibly just a well polished front.
Reason that I use the term “reminded” is that instructors who claim more than what they really are and/or one’s who can’t deliver quality education have been around for as long as there have been photography workshops. People within the photography workshop/convention/schools circuits actually talk about which speakers deliver (or not) and who to book and why.
OTOH, I kinda feel bad (regardless of costing matrix) for Scarlett that her class had terribly gone wrong and that people were so upset that very public reviews have been needed to address the situation. We (myself included) all have our bad days as instructor and it’s very rare that one is always 100%. I hope that people give her another chance and she’ll only get better and stronger in the future. Though in the meantime, I feel that $1500 is indeed to expensive a price to charge if students are not getting what was promised/implied let alone facts about the instructor’s qualifications were false.
Partial refunds should be offered.
I also applaud everyone else who has kindly shared their own stories and I hope that everyone learns from this experience.
Marc Benjamin, M.Photog Cr. CPP
marcbenjamin.com
Thank you for your post!!!
Good to know!
Leeann,
I just learned about your blog post of Scarlett’s workshop and I have to say, you did a comprehensive review. You kept it real and honest and I appreciate that. And I love that Scarlett handled her repsonse with grace.
Bob and I do workshops throughout the year and I always worry about connecting with our attendees and that we’re providing everyone with more than they had ever expected or hoped for. It can be overwhelming making sure that each person feels completely satisfied. And as you know, it’s hard to make everyone happy in life.
We get emails all the time asking if us if we think workshops are a good investment. Of course, our answer is yes, but we encourage everyone to investigate the person giving the workshop. Contact former attendees, see what their experience was like. Most importantly, see if they received any follow up to their questions after the workshop was over. Workshops can be overwhelming with information and is very difficult to retain everything you learned. Making sure the photographer is accessible after the workshop is over is so important.
I really appreciate your review. It makes me feel even more responsible, if that’s possible, to make sure we are providing content that will change the lives of our attendees and make them better photographers and better business owners.
Thank you for your honesty. It keeps us all honest…. I hope!
All my best,
~ Dawn
Thanks for posting your honest review. Photographers offering workshops should be reviewed and responses published. I searched for reviews of a Chicago photographer providing a workshop and found all the happy comments by pleased “clients” until after I attended her 2 day workshop in Chicago. It turned out to be a significant waste of money and when we dug deeper, we found one blog post that had critiqued her work. That post was later deleted since the famously stalked photographer threatened her with a defamation of character lawsuit. Sad, really, because a couple of us tried to add our feedback to the blog but in fear, they never posted our comments. Instead, I got an attorney to try and get my money back and the “rock star” photographer sent me a childish, name calling email telling me to stop having my relative-with-an-attorney’s-letterhead sending her notes. It opened my eyes to this problem in our industry. They’re just people. With cameras.
Thank you for exposing Stephen Knuth’s unprofessional behavior.
The Chicago-based photographer I was referring to was Audrey Woulard. After receiving emails asking who it was, in light of the open dialogue here, I realized I should be so bold and say her name.
Sigh. I’m sad to hear that about Audrey Woulard. I love her work.
“Relative-with-an-attorney’s-letterhead” – LOL.
I thought I would respond since I have been getting a lot of hits on my blog regarding Scarlett’s workshop. I really like Scarlett and wanted to show my support by being one of the first attendees at her workshop. However, I agree that the workshop was overpriced, and almost cancelled as a result, but didn’t want to lose my deposit. I did go into it knowing that Scarlett’s strong point was not in the technical aspects of photography, as she herself has admitted. So I didn’t expect to get a lot of technical knowledge from the workshop. I was especially interested in learning more about marketing, and wish that topic would have been covered more indepth. I did not like the dance break, as it made me feel very uncomfortable. I did, however, come away from the workshop with some inspiration and editing tips, some of which I have put into practice. I am very interested in video, and was glad to see the Bui Brothers there. I had met them in a previous workshop, and was able to get some good video tips from them, and spent a large portion of my time at the workshop taking video. I do think Scarlett really tried to put together a workshop the attendees would value. I think if she takes all the feedback into consideration, that she is very capable of giving a good workshop and will be ultimately be successful at that endeavour.
Hi Connie! Thank you for writing your review as well – it’s always appreciated! You’re such a sweet lady. It was great to meet you at the workshop!
I do have one question. You have attended a Spend-a-day, the Photog Cruise Retreat, and the Group Workshop. All of those combined at asking price would be about $3,300. You noted in your review that you wish you had learned more about marketing at the workshop. Don’t you think at some point in your (quite large) investment, you should have received this information? Just my $0.02.
Has anyone seen THIS workshop?
http://www.loveaffairworkshop.com/
$2,700 to hang out with these 4 photographers.
Really? REALLY????
I think it’s disgusting that they just offered (and I quote…) “a fun new payment plan!”
What’s fun about paying them in increments??
Just sayin’.
@Brooke Camden. I’m pretty sure Scarlett went to that. Perhaps that’s why she thinks she can get away with her high fee?
Leeann, have you still not heard anything from her?
I appreciate your sharing the true experience you had at the workshop, no matter if it was different than another photographer’s experience. I have never attended a photographer workshop, as I find them expensive and agree with most who post that you can find answers through people who are interested in truly helping you out for free. I have been blessed to link up with some awesome photographers who are not afraid to share information.
I did however take a 2-day workshop with an Adobe Certified Instructor a few years ago. He was phenomenal and taught me everything I needed to really know about Photoshop and creating my own personal workflow. I would suggest something like that for those interested in learning editing & workflow.
Sometimes I feel that building your business and brand is somewhat of a trial & error. Everyone will take a different path to get there, but being compassionate, sincere, honest and consistent will get you there. I will be following you
Aw, that’s sweet, Katelyn! Thanks so much!!
When I started out in the dark ages of photography, there were no photographers “teaching” their hard won methods and tricks. Everything was a trade secret. Somewhere along the line a photographer here and there figured out that teaching a workshop was a good way to make extra money during a seasonal business lull. (For many years Ansel Adams taught workshops in Yosemite, and even Edward Weston took in private students to pay the bills) Now the workshop “industry” is almost as lucrative as shooting!
Keep in mind that the driving motive of providing that workishop is Profit. I am sure there are some fantastic photgrapher/teachers out there, but even they are in it to make money. Even an inexpensive evening workshop is often just an advertisement for their DVD series or PS actions. When you consider attending a workshop and investing your MONEY and your TIME remember CAVEAT EMPTOR! (buyer beware)
leann – loved your review – constructive & honest without character assasination. AND I agree with a lot of the other commenters who stated that your work is GORGEOUS! I also wanted to comment on the Love Affair Workshop mentioned above. I graduated with my masters in fine art photography 17 years ago and have had a successful portrait studio for years. I have never attended a workshop outside of WPPI and PPA conferences – but I went to Love Affair. I went because I researched the instructors and the content with due diligence. I went because I felt “stuck” and that I needed a creative smack upside the head. I went because I thought it would do me & my business good – and it did many times over. I felt like I got every pennies worth that I spent. all topics, be it photoshop, marketing, off-camera lighting. etc were taught thoroughly and thoughtfully. when it came time for shooting – there were multiple models so it was only 4 shooters per model & all of the models were styled differently and with amazing style. critiques were constructive with obvious knowledge behind them. the instructors were always available to answer anything from website/blog critique to marketing – attending all breakfasts & lunches with us and hanging out with us from early evening til late at night – the welcome and farewell parties were a-ma-zing! Your basically getting 4 different workshops at once because each of the instructors have different areas up expertise. the classes were scheduled so that you could attend a session based on your experience and not waste your time learning something you already know. I made great friends (and I include all of the instructors in this catagory) as well – but this was just icing to a very well-crafted cake. Love Affair is truly a workshop held by women for women and as a “veteran” photographer I would highly recommend it. (I also think the payment plan is a great idea – just sayin’)
Oh how I wish I had seen this when it was first posted… Kudos to you for stepping up and saying something. Kudos to Jenny for speaking up too… I wish I could say more, but I too am in the lovely small town of Jacksonville… Then again maybe I should say more…
J – Do say more. The more people that speak up, the less people that will in the future fall for her tactics. I’d love to hear how your Spend the Day with.. when with Miss Lillian.
Thank you Leeannmarie (and Jenny too), for having the courage to post this. I have often wondered about all these photographers, who are making abscene amounts of money from their workshops. I’m glad to hear an honest perspective…the good, the bad…and the ugly. Thanks for the honestly.
[...] is a photographer who gave a honest review! Your Thoughts? Thanks Leeann! Posted in Photography Chat Tags: article, gary fong, [...]
did scarlett give any incentives at the workshop if you promised to do a blog review at home?
Things I have learned since 2007:
WPPI is AMWAY. “Most people on stage aren’t really photographers”, they earn their money through selling their own products. Do you ever wonder how these “rock star” photographers are always on the road teaching? Don’t they have a butt load of clients to serve??? Where do they have the time to Facebook, blog, workshop etc? Isn’t there phone ringing of the hook?
and
I personally do not trust self-proclaimed “Christians”. “Christian Photographers” are the Benny Hinn’s and Peter Popoff’s of the WPPI world. You should google Benny and Peter, they do everything in the name of God.
It seems these Christian Photographers feel the same as Benny & Peter; make a buck from the insignificant people.
[...] a picture of a bride or couple on something that is really about me? Murph – more info here: Scarlett Lillian Workshop Review | Pittsburgh Wedding Photographer | Leeann Marie Photography If you dig deep, which you probably don't want to do, it is really a reaction to the *rockstars* [...]
Hopped over from post by Gary Fong. I found your review to be direct, on-point without a lot of mud-slinging.
Haven’t read through the entire thread of comments, but I wanted to post some info in response to the “Editing” section of your review.
Regarding over-saturation then removal of orange from skin tones:
In both Adobe Camera RAW (launched from Adobe Bridge) and Lightroom’s Develop module, there are two adjustment sliders called Vibrance & Saturation.
Vibrance works by targeting the muted colors in a scene first, eventually modifying the entire spectrum. Vibrance is designed to prevent skin tones (orange) from becoming over-saturated.
Saturation will target all the colors equally, which makes bright colors even brighter, eventually bleeding a scene.
Generally speaking, I tend to use Vibrance much more than I ever did Saturation. I also like to use them in combination, plus Vibrance, minus Saturation.
I apologize in the information is redundant, it speaks nothing to your skill level or that of your viewers. I hope it’s helpful to beginners.
cheers!
- A.J.
Hey! Thanks, AJ, for stopping by! Agreed – I tend to increase my vibrance just a bit to bump my colors over saturation, unless I have a purposeful need for it. Thanks for sharing
- Leeann
[...] gear and was a big time big money shooter. Then she taught a workshop. $1500 worth of workshop. Scarlett Lillian Workshop Review | Pittsburgh Wedding Photographer | Leeann Marie Photography There is a review about how much it sucked. The real money right now in wedding photography is [...]
[...] is in working the actual business. Read this review from a 'workshop' from Scarlett Lillian. Scarlett Lillian Workshop Review | Pittsburgh Wedding Photographer | Leeann Marie Photography This is what you are getting quite often now. Buyer beware. I think you are much better off [...]
[...] of fluff without much substance. For instance, take this review of a Scarlett Lillian workshop: Scarlett Lillian Workshop Review | Pittsburgh Wedding Photographers | Leeann Marie Photography It pops up first on a google search for Scarlett Lillian. Gary Fong even chimed in on the [...]
Wow, thank you for your honesty. I am shocked but so happy that you were brave enough to post this. Good for you. I don’t know this photographer or this workshop.
i wanted to thank you for writing an honest review. this isn’t a workshop i have looked into and honestly have no idea who scarlett is. i know alot of photographers that spend tons of money each year on workshops. i hear about alot of the friends made but not as much context.
I hate that you had a bad experience but i am glad that you shared it with all of us.
I, for one, appreciate your review. These workshops cost a lot and the natural reaction is to rave about them even if they aren’t very good. I know you crossed out the part about getting more blog readers because of this review, but you’ve gained one in me, just by being honest.
Good, honest review, Leeann. I’ve ben to a few disappointing workshops myself, and had they been reviewed as honestly as your review, I may have reconsidered spending the cash.
Leeann, thank you for the honest review, so glad to see this. Most of us including me is trying to be polite and not say anything. It bothers me, I had a sour taste with another workshop that was endorsed by some of the rockstar photographers. At least you had 3 days with that amount of money. This workshop was only 6-8 hours. At this point, I’ve lost my trust and stopped looking up to some of the photographers.
Thank you again Leeann.
you don’t need no workshop… your work is fabulous!
WOW! I read through most of it and just amazed! I saw their promo video on their website, my first thought was “…over acting by Scarlett” Sorry Scarlett, I am not going to hate on you but that was just an impression I got. Then reading this, well I can’t say I’m surprised. Good luck to you and Stephen.
WOW – this is fantastic. You were so honest, but not nasty or grumpy. I attended a workshop recently and I was very disappointed (it ran very similarly to the above), and this post has given me the confidence to post in a very similar manner. Thanks for having the guts to post!
Thank you for the honest review! I think we all get suckered in from time to time by the “rockstar” photographers, but Michael is totally right! WPPI is the Amway of photography! Where do these “rockstars” find their time to service ALL the clients they have?! Good question! It’s very intersting to sit back and observe, rather than BUY in to all the hype! I love going to seminars for new ideas on marketing and other useful items – like Doug Gordon’s flow posing as a significant time-saver and I love Sal Cincotta’s business plan, but I don’t actually purchase what they are selling. I have never attended a hands-on workshop and it sounds like I’ll stay far away from this one. I lived in Jacksonville for several years, worked for a large photography company there, and got married there and never heard of these two before… I actually found your post when I got an email from DWF that said Scarlett’s “40 Day” book is under scrutiny currently. Thanks for the honest review!
Fantastic review. Lots of information. I wish more people would do this so that people could read up about a workshop before they spend their hard earned money on it. I think you did a great job of telling all the facts and I don’t think you sounded like a grump. Just telling it like it is. Thanks for sharing!
I hadn’t ever heard of S&S until today. They were mentioned in an article by Gary Fong that also linked to you. Your review is great. My question though is WHY anyone would want to take a workshop from either of them. Their work is subpar and their editing is atrocious. From just seeing your pictures that are the backdrop of this blog you are a MUCH better photographer! I can’t figure out why people are looking to them for teaching???
I will say that S&S’s wedding photos are much better than their children’s portraits (which is what I initially looked at). Some of their editing looks good. Some is terrible. Maybe the terrible stuff is older?
I just heard of S&S today via the whole DJ/Gary Fong thing and S&S’s work on their website made me want to vomit. I can do better and I’m not charging $4,500+. I’m sorry you wasted your money on that crappy workshop, but I applaud you for the honest review! BTW, your work is 10x better than theirs
Great post. I attended a workshop 1 month ago that absolutely a total waste of money and all about the photographers shooting for their own portfolio!!! I am glad you had the guts to post this….inspiring!!!
I’m so glad I saw this; I think I now have the guts to say something publicly about the absolutely awful, terrible workshop experience I had last month…
Thanks for writing this Leeann, and also thank you to the other commenters. Really interesting to read that many others are thinking the same thing. Especially interesting was the chat about the discouragement to post a negative review of other workshops thereby creating a false sense of satisfaction. I’m really suspect now to attend anything in the future without some serious research and deciding if it really is worth it. Thanks again!
It’s so refreshing to see an honest opinion – thank you for sharing this.
Sadly, it doesn’t do much good to google reviews for workshops, since savvy instructors force you to give a testimonial before you even leave the workshops. It’s called marketing. What are the odds of someone writing up their true feelings and handing it directly to the person leading the workshop? Slim to none.
I’m also glad to see you address these issues – instructors should NOT be shooting for themselves on workshop time and instructors should not be spending valuable workshop time working on their own marketing or collecting testimonials. If no one speaks up about this, these practices will just continue on.
I have a few pet peeves too, having about 6 workshops under my belt. It is clearly time for me to stop spending my hard earned cash without asking hardball questions and setting boundaries.
Here’s what I DON’T want to pay to hear at a workshop:
1) During editing – do not stand up there and refuse to answer photoshop questions by saying “it’s all about getting it right straight out of the camera”. Umm, yeah, that’s all great but why the hell are you holding an editing workshop? Do not collect my hard earned money by promising to teach me your editing secrets and then tell me instead that it’s about shooting technique (oh and you can learn all about that in my $600 shooting workshop or mentorship).
2) Do not tell me your images are all about “finding the right light” unless you are prepared to show exactly what this means right then and there. This is another excuse instructors seem to hide behind when they don’t want to share any specific shooting technique.
You’re laughing because you’ve hear this too, right?
I have no problem paying for good solid educational materials, but it’s time for full disclosure about what some workshop holders are doing.
Thank you for sharing your valuable story.
Hey